In addition the chief designer of the WTC has explained in detail how the structural design lead to the collapse. When you understand a little bit about the relative strengths of light alloy airframes and large reinforced concrete building, you have no problem accepting that a plane flew into the Pentagon, not a missile. We need to round up these CT theorists in special science camps where they will be forced to learn the rudiments of math and science.
They will also be given aversion therapy to make them gag when they read anything written by Noam Chomsky. This is cruel, but it is our only hope. But my general point stands, e. I dunno. I watched it. It does make you think and it asks some interesting questions but I'm not convinced by the answers. Just because the government say it's marsh gas, doesn't mean the only other explanation is space aliens.
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And I'm pretty sure I could make a documentary that convinced most viewers the earth was flat, given enough time and the right guests. In the end it's a matter of trust, I suppose. And that's true of our stuff too. Are the maths and science skills of Prof. Steven E. Jones, Physicist and Archaeometrist, high enough for you with your secondary school metal work experience to engage in debate of the facts without using personal attacks? Some have put forward explanations, it's just that you may not have come across them! The Brewster Jennings network in Turkey was able to intercept this shipment which was intended to be hidden in Iraq and later used as evidence that Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction.
I don't think all, or even most, CTists see 'conspirators' as "evil geniuses" in the 'Hollywood' sense , or that they have complete control over everything and everyone - far from it! The system government, police, intelligence services, military, etc. The CTs can be explained easily by the activities of small, organised but powerful groups who can abuse the system. Andrew 57 , the tapes don't even have to be fakes themselves.
Osama bin Laden could conceivably be a party to the plot, but his role is more a cameo like. Here is the rationale behind this notion:. However, he had some unresolved issues with the US government - see Yossef Bodansky's book "Bin Laden - The Man Who Declared War On America" - this book, published in , is where I for the first time "learned" about "our way of living" and a threat that "militant islam" poses to it. Foreword, page vi:. Knowing well that he can't seriously fight another war, against Americans this time around, which he knew was coming; and that he is therefore bound to become a forgotten hero of a forgotten war against Communism, Osama takes Dick's offer instead.
Alan 58 , with all due respect to your metal forging high school experience, at least some people who actually manufactured, tested and certified that steel we're talking about, don't seem to agree with you.
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If you share some of that "little bit about the relative strengths of light alloy airframes and large reinforced concrete building", we can check it against our collective wisdom and knowledge, and see if we can learn something from it. Sound better to me than those "special science camps" you're proposing. They couldn't just "plant" something, out of context. A feasible context was much more difficult to "plant" given that Hans Blix for one spent considerable time in Iraq and knew one and another about the country. Also, "they" expected to find some chemicals rotting around, scary TV images of neglect and depravation, dirty traces left by an evil regime.
It didn't materialize, but noone cared - ultimately, the "evil geniuses" didn't expect that we'll be still discussing any of this five years later. They are old skool industrial age types, they don't dig the internet. Jones, Physicist and Archaeometrist, high enough for you.. No, I suspect he is a nutter. A cursory glance over this paper is enough to see that it is complete nonsense. The issue of the melting point of steel is a red herring. The collapse was started by the floor panel structures deforming due to the high temperatures.
The floor panel structures where attached to the main structural frames by bolted plates. These plates failed due to the stresses created by the deformed floor panel structures these stresses were not expected and were not designed for. The first floor panel to fail fell on the one below and caused it to fail in turn and set up a chain reaction.
The building unzipped internally. The failure mode is well understood. She was a CIA operative who arranged a boondoggle for her husband to spend a few days in Niger to get evidence in order to discredit Bush. Joe Wilson has been completely discredited; he was closely involved with MoveOn. What is wrong with the more plausible explanation that after the failed WTC bombing in , a group of Islamists learned to fly but not land!
Thanks for the info.
It's an interesting hypothesis. I'm not sure what Bin Laden's motivation would be in helping the US, though. He seems pretty anti-American. But I appreciate he could have hidden allegiances, or was forced in some way. I wonder if he didn't die shortly after from kidney failure, though. Also, not sure how anyone could pursue this line of enquiry further. But I do agree with you the OV of Bin Laden commanding a bunch of Arab guys with box cutters to pull off has more holes than Tiger Woods' entire career - something has to give!
Even in the scenario where Bin Laden did order Arab terrorists to hijack those planes, something paralyzed the military response.
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Well, OK. I do think high school metal shop was sufficient experience though. The floor panels, deformed with the heat, ruptured the bolt plates that held them to the main frame and the whole structure collapsed like dominoes except vertically. This is well understood. I saw a video of a crash test done by the military.
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It involved crashing a fighter jet into a very large house sized solid reinforced concrete block. The impact was recorded with high-speed cameras. In the side-on view you could see the aircraft hit the block and simply vaporise. Nothing was left of the aircraft and the concrete suffered only minor damage. The fighter jet turned into a hot mist. This is what happens when the enormous kinetic energy of the flying jet is turned, almost instantaneously into heat. Aircraft are very strong when they are operated within their design parameters e.
Take a look at the B52 Stratofortress at the Duxford air museum. You can see the fuselage sagging and the metal skin wrinkling. Beer cans hold beer under enormous pressure but when empty they are easily crushed flat. Imagine a big empty beer can hitting a wall at mph. For me most of these theories fall down because they assume a level of secrecy and technical competence from the players that they self-evidently cannot command.
I'm always more inclined to only believe the CTs that involve really clumsy spinning followed by a cacophony of off-the-record briefing by unnamed officials that the OV is nonsense. Anything else attributes a combined level of sophistication, organisation, intelligence and discipline within the conspiring authorities that I just don't see any evidence of.
I've taken the time to read every post on this blog and I must say that I am disappointed in its outcome so far. Adamliv, you obviously work for Newsnight - as an investigative journalist? Have you looked into this or not Adam[? The time and effort that members of the public have given to make this work easier for you to do, should be at least rewarded by you taking an interest in the subject and giving clear and unambiguous replies to the points that have been raised.
So far I see a large proportion of comments here favourable to Conspiracy theories and only a few who regard the Official version as credible. Short of a video confession from George W Bush himself saying that was 'a put up job', what further evidence do you require to at least look into these claims further and make your findings public? Bring on Jeremy Paxman to make comment here, that's what I say! The OV may be vastly different from the nippets we read in the newspapers and soundbites on TV.
Congratulations to Newsnight for realising that they, like everyone else in this country - nay, the world - are at the behest of out of control state and corporate entities that will stop at nothing to prevent their own imminent demise in favour of something new and better for everyone except those whom have conspired to ruin things for all thus far. Top journalistic insight, well done Newsnight! This is precisely why mainstream media is being rapidly replaced by the guerilla journalism of bloggers, youtube video productions and flickr photo collections.
Guess what, Newsnight? We all have rents and mortgages and taxes and bills to pay too. But we also have things that have far wider appeal than your self-interested commitments to arbitrary financial arrangements with the money-men, a couple of things that mainstream media journalists, writers and producers don't appear to have at all any more, namely intellectual honesty, integrity and a dedication to the truth, irrespective of what the truth may be. Maybe the next point of cognition for journalists, especially the BBC with their annual TV owner's tax known as a 'Licence Fee', will be the fact that it is we, the people, who pay the very mortgages about which they are so precious.
Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul. And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
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